Stainless steel bodies, long before DeLorean

Bruno von Rotz
05/31/2020

Edelstahl-Ford-Autos damals (© Worldwirde Auctioneers)

The most famous car with a stainless steel body was clearly the DeLorean DMC-12 from the early 1980s. It was built almost 9000 times. However, it was by no means the first stainless steel car.

DeLorean DMC-12 in Genf 1981 (© Automobil Revue)

In the late sixties and early seventies, a Porsche 911 with a stainless steel body and a BMW 2800 CS Coupé with a stainless steel body were already available in Germany. We have already reported on this once .

A Ford Thunderbird was also built in 1960 with a stainless steel body; the company behind it was "Allegheny Ludlum Steel".

Ford Thunderbird mit Edelstahlkarosserie von 1960

But this Thunderbird was not the only stainless steel car from Allegheny. A 1936 Ford Deluxe and a 1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible were also fitted with a stainless steel body.

Edelstahl-Ford-Autos heute (© Worldwirde Auctioneers)

These three cars will be auctioned by Worldwide Auctioneers on behalf of Allegheny in September 2020.

But even these three cars were not the earliest stainless steel cars, as Allegheny is said to have built three Ford Model A with stainless steel as early as 1931. Unlike the Thunderbird, Deluxe and Continental, however, the Model As have not been seen for a long time, and according to Hemmings author Daniel Strohl, more than one of the three cars is said not to have survived.

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How will we think about the design of the past in 20 or 30 years' time?

Bruno von Rotz
05/30/2020

BMW X2 von 2020 (© BMW AG)

When a picture of the new BMW X2 flickered across the computer screen the other day, I wondered whether people really liked this somewhat bloated-looking vehicle. This relatively compact SUV is a typical child of today with an aggressive front, high waistline, waisted flanks and relatively large wheels.

But how will observers rate this BMW in 20 years' time? Will they like it? Will they consider it collectible?

Of course, it's difficult to look into the future, so let's try a historical perspective and look back 20 years, to the turn of the millennium.

Back then, BMW gave us the Z8 ...

BMW Z8 von 2000 (© BMW AG)

... but also the X5.

BMW X5 von 1999 (© BMW AG)

Mercedes-Benz had the A-Class ...

Mercedes-Benz A190 von 1999 (© Mercedes-Benz)

... and Fiat sold the Multipla.

Fiat Multipla 1999 (© FCA Group / Fiat)

And the Americans loved vehicles like the F150.

Ford F150 von 1999 (© Ford)

Not everything on offer back then is likely to be considered a design classic today, but perhaps we should look back another ten years to 1990.

Back then, you could buy the 300 SL-24 from Mercedes-Benz ...

Mercedes-Benz 300 SL-24 von 1990 (© Daniel Reinhard)

... or a Citroën XM.

Citroën XM von 1990 (© Werk)

Volkswagen had added a road rally version to the Golf ...

VW Rallye Golf von 1989 (© VW)

... and at Volvo you could order a rather angular estate called the 850.

Volvo 850 Turbo von 1991 (© Volvo)

And a Toyota Corolla just looked like many other Japanese cars of the time.

Toyota Corolla von 1991 (© Toyota)

To cut a long story short, even back then not everything that came onto the market impressed us. But we bought it anyway, because tastes differ. And 20 or 30 years later, we still usually like the things that caught our eye back then, even if we didn't even notice them in the meantime ...

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Not a toy, and only for men?

Bruno von Rotz
05/29/2020

Matra-Simca Bagheera von 1975

That's exactly what the headline above the Matra-Simca Bagheera ad said : Not a toy. And yet one might well think that a Bagheera is more of a leisure vehicle than a company car.

Matra-Simca Bagheera von 1975 - Details

But the reason why the Bagheera should not be a toy was provided by the German advertisers via the description of the technical refinements of the car, such as a mid-engine and therefore the best road holding, an outstandingly aerodynamic body made of fiberglass with a favorable drag coefficient and therefore fast, or independent front and rear suspension and therefore a cornering speedster.

The unique selling point was, of course, the three seats next to each other, although the middle bucket seat only had a lap belt.

One statement, placed by the fuel filler neck, was probably the most daring: "At some point, every man should think of himself. The Matra-Simca Bagheera only cost DM 16,307.

Yes, that was cheap, but there are also said to have been many women who bought the car despite this slogan.

Here is all the advertising from back then, which can of course be found in high resolution in the Zwischengas archive . And you can also find a detailed report on the flat sports car online.

Werbung für den Matra-Simca Bagheera

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We like the car

Bruno von Rotz
05/28/2020

Glasspar G2 von 1952

No, you shouldn't just copy this the next time you see a Ferrari 275 GTS or a Jaguar E-Type, for example. Few car bodies would survive such treatment without damage. In the 1950s, however, this photo of a Glasspar( there is of course also an article about the American sports car ) was intended to prove that plastic bodies were more stable.

Brütsch 1956

But it wasn't just the Americans who were into plastic (in the truest sense of the word), but also the German racing driver and small car designer Egon Brütsch. Whether his photo was influenced by the American Glasspar is not known. But Brütsch arranged a few more people on the sturdy plastic body, which was, however, without wheels and axles. The suspensions would probably have collapsed under the weight ...

We are currently preparing a report on Egon Brütsch's special constructions ...

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Are classic cars from the sixties or seventies suitable for everyday use?

Bruno von Rotz
05/27/2020

Renault 4 CV (© Daniel Reinhard)

We often hear this question: "Is this classic car suitable for everyday use?". This usually refers to cars from the sixties or seventies, e.g. an Alfa Romeo 2000 Spider or a Triumph TR6, perhaps also a Renault 4 CV (rear/crème cut).

Of course, the answer is not so simple because, as any consultant would say, "it depends".

If a modern driver of today had to define "suitable for everyday use", then that would mean that you can get into the car in the morning, press the start button and then drive off, get through traffic jams and past all kinds of obstacles without any problems, drive fast or slow and finally put the car in the parking space without any problems, simply park it and lock it. That's it.

In the past, however, "suitable for everyday use" meant that the car functioned in everyday life and under the rules that applied at the time. For example, 50 years ago, many owner's manuals stated that you should check the fluids before setting off each day and top them up if necessary. Checking the oil level every 5000 km was certainly not enough half a century ago.

During the starting procedure, there were a few things to consider, such as operating the "choke" and possibly limiting the parallel power consumption. It was also important not to overload the starter motor or the battery, etc. A breakdown from time to time was not interpreted as "not suitable for everyday use"; in the past, people usually knew how to help themselves. And the occasional lack of power for starting was not a big problem, you just let yourself be pushed or looked for a downhill slope. And it was also clear that you had to take care of your brakes on long downhill rides. On the road, you always paid attention to the instruments and, above all, always worried about the engine's healthy temperature. Long story short: "suitable for everyday use" had a different meaning 50 or more years ago than it does today.

An old car in good condition, properly maintained and cared for, should still meet the requirements for "suitability for everyday use" from back then, but it still can't compete with modern cars in some respects. If you are aware of the differences, you can certainly still use an old car in everyday life.

However, anyone switching from a modern Toyota Prius to an Opel Kadett A without any prior knowledge should get a thorough introduction and find out how to handle a car that is over 50 years old so that it can perform its duties faithfully.

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When car manufacturers react sensitively

Bruno von Rotz
05/26/2020

Ford Capri im Fahrleistungstest

Even a magazine like Automobil Revue, highly respected, famous and feared for its own opinions and the independent test results it produced itself in test reports, had to be reprimanded by car manufacturers from time to time. For example, the masters of the famous car brands did not like it at all when it was mentioned in an article that the rear light had already been used by cars from other manufacturers.

And even Peter Monterverdi could become quite rude if he was reproached for the mundane technical basis of his luxury cars.

It was also undesirable when performance figures fell short of the expectations communicated by the factory. In such cases, the chief developer would come all the way to prove to the obviously incompetent test drivers that it could be done faster. And if it didn't work after all, they would argue and insist on corrections because the measurement conditions did not correspond to the "norm". And word must also have gotten around that the test cars were often tweaked a little at the time so that the performance scattered upwards rather than downwards.

Perhaps this also explains a little why car brands in their own country (or in the neighborhood) often performed better in comparisons than abroad, after all, the production was closer and you could take the right car off the assembly line, which showed particularly good facilities.

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The classic car drivers are (still) holding back (question of the week)

Bruno von Rotz
05/25/2020

Frage der Woche 156 - Ausflugsverhalten

The world is slowly opening up again with the coronavirus easing measures, but not everything is as it was before. A normal summer is not to be expected for classic car enthusiasts either. Major events are still prohibited and many restrictions remain in place. How are classic and vintage car owners dealing with the new freedoms and restrictions? We wanted to find out in a " question of the week" .

"Are you planning any major trips or events with your classic car over the next few months?" we wanted to know from Zwischengas readers.

Only 13.9 percent want to go out again like they used to. What is possible will be done.

However, 52.5 percent are more cautious, although they do consider selective participation in smaller events or classic car trips to be conceivable. Overnight stays in hotels are also a possibility.

But almost 34 percent are holding back! 28.3 percent can imagine smaller trips in small groups, but real events on a larger scale are unthinkable. 5.3 percent have already finished with the classic car year and are holding back as much as possible.

They appreciate the new freedoms overall, but do not want to overdo it.

Here is a graphic analysis of the 224 responses:

Frage der Woche 156 - Ausflugsverhalten Auswertung

Of course, the next "question of the week" has already been asked, and now we want to know how Zwischengas readers assess the market development of vehicles in the context of the Corona consequences.

And of course you can still read all the results of the "Questions of the Week" so far , as there is a dedicated topic channel for this purpose.

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Petrol stations over the course of time

Bruno von Rotz
05/24/2020

Marcos an der Tankstelle

Refueling a car is one of the most normal things in life. However, the environment and the technology we use to transport the fuel into the tank has changed again and again over time. Where we were once served and even allowed to remain seated in the car, we now operate ourselves. The fuel pumps have also changed, as have the payment methods. But the fuel still flows into the tank through a hose.

We searched various archives for photos of petrol stations to put together another car connoisseur quiz . The example with the Marcos above shows the direction we are going in.

Our readers should now recognize which era the photos are from. Paying attention to small details increases the probability of guessing correctly.

Would you like to give it a try? You can find our new, once again certainly entertaining car connoisseur quiz here ...

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How is the coronavirus crisis affecting classic car prices?

Bruno von Rotz
05/23/2020

Auswirkungen von Corona auf die Oldtimerpreise

One question that many classic car owners (or prospective owners) are currently asking is whether prices for old cars are likely to rise or fall due to the coronavirus crisis. Of course, we don't have a crystal ball at our disposal either, but we have taken a look into the past, more precisely into the time of the financial crisis that shook the world around 2007/2008. In order to determine the influence of the financial crisis on classic car prices, we compared 100 Classic Data valuations (according to condition 2, i.e. very good condition) from 2006 with those from 2010, i.e. before and after the financial crisis.

The analysis shows that, despite this certainly difficult period, prices have risen rapidly, on average by a total of 47 percent! Only one car became cheaper, all the others became more valuable. The differences between the periods, i.e. pre-war, post-war, sixties and seventies, are small on average in the selected examples. Particularly rare and legendary cars certainly rose in price more than less rare and better-known vehicles. That was already the case back then.

Can this insight now be easily applied to the current situation? There are a few differences that certainly come into play here. Firstly, we were in a phase of slightly falling prices before the coronavirus crisis, after the peak for many cars was probably reached around 2015/2016. The coronavirus crisis and a potential subsequent recession will have a much greater impact on more people than the financial crisis. On the other hand, investments in tangible assets are particularly popular in times of recession. And then there is the issue of changing environmental awareness and its impact on the usability and attractiveness of the automobile as such. The extent to which new laws and changes in lifestyle will affect classic car prices also remains to be seen.

Classic car owners can certainly be encouraged by the fact that old cars have held their value well in past crises. And as many classic car drivers assure us, driving an old car has been particularly enjoyable in recent weeks, regardless of its value.

What do you expect yourself? Will classic car prices tend to rise or fall as a result of the coronavirus impact? Answer our "question of the week"on this topic and join in the discussion.

Here is the table we have compiled for our brief analysis:

Brand	Type	Years of manufacture	Period	2006 Z 2	2010 Z 2	Increase in %
AC	Cobra 289 Mk II	1963-1965	60s	155000	360000	132
Alfa Romeo	6C 1750 SS	1919-1932	pre-war	290000	380000	31
Alfa Romeo	Giulia Super	1965-1971	60s	10600	14800	40
Alfa Romeo	Spider 2000 Veloce	1974-1983	70s	10200	12200	20
Alpine-Renault	A110 1600 S	1970-1972	70s	29000	46000	59
Aston Martin	DB4	1958-1963	60s	86000	185000	115
Audi	100 Coupé S	1970-1971	70s	9000	14000	56
Austin-Healey	100/4 BN1	1952-1955	50s	34000	48000	41
BMW	328 sports two-seater	1937-1939	pre-war	192000	370000	93
BMW	507	1956-1959	50s	270000	530000	96
BMW	Isetta 300 Export	1956-1962	50s	10400	14500	39
BMW	3.0 CS	1971-1975	70s	11600	18600	60
BMW	2002 Turbo	1973-1975	70s	18000	29500	64
Borgward	Isabella Coupé	1958-1961	50s	20400	26100	28
Cadillac	Series 62 Convertible	1959	50s	44000	68000	55
Chevrolet	Corvette C2 Coupé	1964-1966	60s	27000	38000	41
Chevrolet	Camaro Coupé	1967-1969	60s	12200	15300	25
Citroën	11 B Légère	1947-1952	50s	11000	15200	38
Citroën	2 CV 6	1969-1976	70s	4300	6900	60
Citroën	DS 19 Pallas	1965-1968	60s	12300	14900	21
Citroën	SM	1970-1972	70s	18000	23000	28
Citroën	DS 21 Pallas	1968-1972	60s	11200	13900	24
Datsun	240 Z	1970-1974	70s	12300	15400	25
De Tomaso	Pantera	1971-1978	70s	32000	40000	25
Dino	246 GT	1969-1974	70s	65000	120000	85
DKW	3=6 Monza	1956-1958	50s	21700	31000	43
DKW	AU 1000 S Coupé	1959-1961	50s	7300	9500	30
Ferrari	250 GT 2+2	1960-1964	60s	67000	115000	72
Ferrari	275 GTB/4	1966-1968	60s	310000	700000	126
Ferrari	365 GTB/4 Daytona	1968-1973	60s	148000	240000	62
Fiat	500 B Topolino	1948-1949	50s	10500	13700	30
Fiat	500 D	1960-1965	60s	5500	7200	31
Fiat	6000 Multipla	1955-1960	50s	7500	9800	31
Fiat	1500 convertible	1964-1965	60s	9900	13500	36
Fiat	850 Coupé	1965-1968	60s	4100	7000	71
Fiat	124 Abarth Rally Stradale	1972-1975	70s	15400	20000	30
Fiat	130 Coupé	1971-1976	70s	10500	13700	30
FMR	Tg 500 Tiger	1958-1961	50cc	29000	62000	114
Ford	Taunus 12 M	1959-1962	60s	5900	8300	41
Ford	Capri 2600 RS	1970-1973	70s	11700	17300	48
Ford	Capri 3000 GXL/GT	1972-1973	70s	6900	9700	41
Ford	Escort RS 2000	1973-1974	70s	9300	21000	126
Ford	Mustang Convertible	1964-1966	60s	22500	28500	27
Glass	Goggomobil T 250	1955-1969	60s	4000	5500	38
Glass	1300 GT Coupé	1964-1965	60s	13300	17000	28
Heinkel	Cabin 154	1957-1958	50s	7000	7700	10
Iso	Grifo 7 Litri	1968-1970	60s	66000	135000	105
Jaguar	XK 120 OTS	1949-1954	50s	52000	68000	31
Jaguar	XK 150 S DHC	1959-1961	50s	59000	101000	71
Jaguar	E-Type Series 1 3.8 Coupé	1961-1964	60s	39000	53700	38
Lamborghini	Miura P400 S	1968-1971	60s	114000	310000	172
Lancia	Aurelia B20 GT Coupé	1953-1957	50s	61000	95000	56
Lancia	Flaminia Convertible 3C 2.8 Touring	1963-1965	60s	33000	41800	27
Lancia	Fulvia 1.6 HF	1969-1970	60s	17500	41000	134
Lotus	Elan S2	1964-1966	60s	22100	26700	21
Maserati	Ghibli SS Coupé	1969-1972	70s	47000	66000	40
Mercedes-Benz	170 Va	1950-1952	50s	18000	23400	30
Mercedes-Benz	300 SL Gullwing	1954-1957	50s	290000	410000	41
Mercedes-Benz	190 W121	1956-1959	50s	12300	17200	40
Mercedes-Benz	190 SL W121	1955-1963	50s	45000	59000	31
Mercedes-Benz	220 SEb W111 /3 Coupé	1961-1965	60s	21000	30400	45
Mercedes-Benz	280 SL W113 Pagoda	1968-1971	60s	32000	48000	50
Mercedes-Benz	280 E /8	1971-1976	70s	7600	10500	38
MF	TF 1500	1954-1955	50s	34000	36700	8
MG	TA	1936-1939	Pre-war	30000	38800	29
MG	TC	1945-1949	50s	29000	31300	8
MG	A 1600 Mk II Roadster	1961-1962	60s	22300	26100	17
MG	B GT Mk II	1967-1971	60s	9700	10900	12
Mini	Cooper S 1275 Mk I	1964-1971	60s	15900	25400	60
Monteverdi	High Speed 375 S	1968-1976	70s	44000	51500	17
Morgan	Plus 8 4 speed	1972-1976	70s	29000	37700	30
NSU	Wankel Spider	1964-1967	60s	12100	16900	40
NSU	TT	1967-1972	60s	9700	17500	80
NSU	Ro80	1969-1977	70s	6400	9300	45
Opel	Captain 54	1953-1955	50s	11300	15100	34
Opel	Rekord 1500 P1 4 doors	1959-1960	60s	7500	10500	40
Opel	Kadett B 1700 S Coupé	1967-1970	60s	4400	5900	34
Opel	GT 1900	1968-1973	70s	10500	13100	25
Opel	Manta A GT/E	1974-1975	70s	7500	10800	44
Opel	Commodore GS/E Coupé	1970-1971	70s	6400	8000	25
Peugeot	404 convertible	1966-1968	60s	16400	20500	25
Porsche	356 1500 Speedster	1954-1955	50s	63000	113000	79
Porsche	356 A 1600 S Coupé	1955-1959	50s	38000	52000	37
Porsche	911 Carrera RS 2.7	1972-1973	70s	68000	190000	179
Range Rover		1970-1981	70s	9200	11400	24
Renault	4 CV	1947-1961	50s	6300	8200	30
Rolls-Royce	Corniche Convertible	1971-1977	70s	51000	48000	-6
Saab	92 B	1953-1956	50s	7100	9800	38
SS	Jaguar 100 3.5	1934-1940	Pre-war	168000	220000	31
Toyota	2000 GT	1965-1970	60s	140000	210000	50
Toyota	Celica GT	1973-1977	70s	5600	8500	52
Triumph	TR3A	1957-1961	50s	22100	27500	24
Triumph	TR6 PI	1972-1976	70s	17700	22000	24
TVR	3000 S	1978-1979	70s	19800	22500	14
Volvo	P1800 S	1966-1968	60s	10300	14700	43
VW	Pretzel Export	1949-1953	50s	12500	15400	23
VW	1200 Export	1964-1965	60s	4900	6100	24
VW	1303 LS Cabriolet	1972-1980	70s	11400	14200	25
VW	Karmann-Ghia Coupé	1955-1960	50s	9900	13100	32
VW	Type 2/T1 Samba 23 F	1955-1963	50s	33000	40000	21

Current valuations of the vehicles, which in almost all cases are significantly higher than at the time, can be found here. And yes, a BMW 2002 Turbo for EUR 29,500 in condition 2, the phone would be ringing off the hook today.

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Electrifying a classic car will not save the world, on the contrary

Bruno von Rotz
05/22/2020

We are basically of the opinion that everyone can do what they want with their own vehicle. If someone wants to "improve" their classic with modern aluminum rims or modern technology, there is nothing wrong with that if the result is not to be considered a classic and original vehicle. Of course, some historical cultural assets are lost with such modifications, but these are usually not one-offs that mutate into old-new hybrids, but (hopefully) mass products, many of which have survived (more or less) in their original form to this day.

Titelblatt Migros-Magazin 21 vom 18.5.2020

Where we start to prick up our ears, however, is when we see an electrified Chevrolet Corvette C1 on the cover of a magazine with 1.55 million printed copies (certified) with the title "A second spring". The three-and-a-half-page article suggests that an environmentally friendly (and quiet) classic car has been resurrected. As is well known, the car is backed by the Marton manufactory, which is certainly enjoying this large-scale advertisement for its small company. We also reported briefly on the Corvette C1 some time ago.

After all, the article also documents that the electric Corvette has not only met with positive reactions. But apparently other cars are already in the conversion process, such as a Jaguar from the XK series or a Citroën DS. The high conversion costs will prevent thousands of classic cars from losing their combustion powertrains, but it doesn't really feel good to see more and more of these "Teslas" being built in old gear.

But now something should be said about the topic of "environmentally friendly classic cars", because installing a large battery and one or more electric motors does not make an old car environmentally friendly, on the contrary. For the electrified old car to be as CO2-friendly as an unmodified model, it would probably have to drive tens of thousands of kilometers, if not over 100,000 km, until the emissions that were necessary for the production of the battery and drive were offset again, even if the electricity could be produced completely CO2-neutral (which is of course impossible, because even solar power is based on energy-intensive and not completely cleanly produced solar cells, wind power as well, etc.).

But even with an electric drive, an old Corvette is of course still a car with technology from the 1960s and hardly anyone will cover such long distances with it over a long period of time. Let's leave aside the problem that many rare raw materials had to be mined to produce the batteries.

For us, the matter is clear. An old car needs a drivetrain from the period, otherwise it is no longer a classic and certainly no longer a historic cultural asset. And in addition to its beautiful shape, an old car also needs to make a good noise and perhaps even emit unwanted emissions in some places today. But if you consider that most old cars are cherished and rarely moved, then closeness to originality should be given higher priority than a zeitgeist drivetrain.

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